Amusing: Top US and Russian Experts Tear Apart the New Round of Anti-Kremlin Sanctions

60 Minutes. The most essential news.

Today's program is special, embracing 3 studios in Moscow, Washington, and New York. Today is the 180-day sanctions period deadline set by the US Congress for the Treasury to make up a "name and shame" list, as the US journalists put it, or the Kremlin list, or list of Putin's friends, who Washington thinks to be closest to the Russian President. It is still unclear what will happen to the people on the list, Russian-US relations, and all of us. Either way, we'll see it in the near future. The list is expected any moment. Of course, we have seats in the first row. Evgeny Popov is working in Washington. We'll get back to Washington soon.

 

Now let's move on to the country that for some reason is looking forward to the new sanctions more than others. As the saying goes, may my house burn, so long as my neighbor's cow is dead. Naturally, it's about Ukraine, where today the Supreme Court started the so-called trial of the century, Mikhail Saakashvili vs Petr Poroshenko, a disgraced politician vs the President. Saakashvili claims that Petr Alekseevich revoked his citizenship illegally, and that Petr Alekseevich is holding office as President illegally because, unexpectedly, he's not Ukrainian.

Mikhail Saakashvili: "I've known him since university. Everybody knew I'm Georgian, and he's Moldovan. It's true. He can't deny it. Time passed, that Moldovan first made the Georgian Ukrainian, but then revoked his citizenship. Are we going to look into the nationalities of our PM, deputy PM, ministers, most of the Verkhovnaya Rada members? They are opening a Pandora's box which shouldn't be opened".

It shouldn't be opened. Meanwhile, 10 minutes away, some people are not only trying to open this Pandora's box, but trying to tear up its cover. Ukrainian Neo-Nazi from the National Corps formed their own national militia. Tough guys with fighting experience, many of them being ex-members of the Azov battalion, will patrol Kiev's streets from now on to find those who are not Ukrainian enough.

[Speaking in Ukrainian:] "Serving the Ukrainian nation!"

"Today, here are those who have already returned from the eastern front. There are many who are going there. There are guys who fight drug trade and alcohol genocide of our nation every day".

It's the National Corps. Vadim Valerievich, imagine you're asked to show your ID for a check by unauthorized people whom you can't refuse. It's awkward. But that's not the point. The word "Russia" has been constantly repeated on US TV since 5 a.m. local time. They're trying to turn new anti-Russian sanctions, the 'name and shame', or Putin's, list, into a TV show. Let's watch it.

- Today is the deadline for the Treasury to adopt new anti-Russian sanctions. Senate approved them in July, but the White House has already missed several deadlines. Let's move to Moscow, to our expert. Good morning, Fred.

- Today many oligarchs who are close to Putin are nervous about the release of a name list scheduled for today. The thing is that it will include not only names, but also their financial profile, as well as their children and wives' financial details. Putin's spokesperson says it's an attempt to influence the upcoming Russian presidential election. So, there's much fury in Moscow today.

Daniel Fried, National Security Council member: "I guess the administration understands that the law doesn't aim to simply punish rich Russians, but to punish Putin's establishment, as I put it, people within his range of influence, his agents."

"The US Department of Treasury is to release a report today and to move forward. Last month, the President agreed to sell offensive arms in Ukraine. The incumbent administration is conducting a hard-line anti-Russian policy. We'll carry on sanction laws, we'll fight for US interests".

Now let's move to Washington where Evgeny Popov and the experts are working, and to New York where Konstantin Vadimovich Remchukov hears us and is ready to comment. Actually, it's a unique person near Zhenya. Paul Saunders is not only a prominent expert in Russian-US relations, but also a former member of the Bush administration.

- Paul, let's begin with you. Explain to us, please, what is this all about, why they need it, what is the plot. We know that you speak Russian a little. You can switch to English if you like. Please explain to us, what's going on?

Paul Saunders, Executive Director of the Center for the National Interest: Thank you. Of course, the idea of a list of Putin's friends and the report is an integral part of the sanctions law adopted by the Congress. That's why... It's important to recognize that the administration releasing this list is following through on its commitments under the law. And the idea behind it is very old. It's happening now, rather than at some other time because Americans and their elected representatives in Congress are still very angry about Russia's interference in elections.

- And it started earlier, Syria…

- Yes, it started... Correct. Sanctions in general started from Ukraine. But, the law that passed last year passed overwhelmingly because of the election interference. It's important to remember. And the advocates of the idea, they think that it will apply pressure to President Putin and people around him, they are not concerned about how the rest of Russian society will react because the advocates of that idea think that Russian society also does not like its leadership.

- Mr. Sanders has raised an interesting point. It's the fact that our attitude to sanctions has already been measured. David Philipov, who's been putting Russia under microscope since 1983, and I have just looked into statistics provided by our public opinion center and a US one, showing that 68% of our population have nothing to do with the sanctions. That is, they aren't afraid of them though there was no word "fear" at all. While more than 20% are really concerned about the ramifications of the sanctions.

Hello, Olga, hello, honorable experts, I have the website of the US Treasury in front of me. The US Department of Treasury is the body that imposes sanctions on various countries. So far, there's no news on the list that is expected any moment.

Let's move to New York and Konstantin Remchukov. He's the owner and editor-in-chief of Nezavisimaya Gazeta who knows many influential people in our country, keeps terms with them, communicates with them, interviews them, writes about them.

Konstantin Vadimovich, the US press often writes that rich Russians pester Washington to avoid sanctions. You know many people who might be on this sanction list. Are these people concerned about the fact that they might be included in this list?

Konstantin Remchukov, editor-in-chief of Nezavisimaya Gazeta: Well, rich people are special. they are quite calm and reserved. Rarely do they pester by themselves or speak up. Most of them have powerful legal lobbies in Washington. They, of course, are engaged in finding ways to avoid being included in the sanction list. The main reason is that there is no clearly determined mechanism of how to be excluded from this list. What should they do for it? Donate all their money to fight with Putin? Or publicly disown Putin? The mechanism isn't determined. So, for now it seems to be a one-way ticket. You get on the sanctions list, your assets are threatened all around the world, as well as your contracts in third countries, such as in Europe, Asia. If sanctions expand on those who continue business with you, who are on the sanction list, then these companies, say, German, Turkish, Chinese might be punished too. And partners might avoid you like a leper. Thus, people are more afraid of these repercussions and uncertainty over how to get excluded from this list and what is the proof that you aren't an enemy of the US, because this law is to counter US enemies.

- Pyotr Olegovich, we are very concerned about the rich, they're special, they're worrying, we can't get who's pestering Washington lobbies. Nevertheless, what will sanctions mean for you and us, or rather us, plain Russian citizens? We're afraid. What will happen next?

Pyotr Tolstoy, deputy head of the United Russia faction in the State Duma:

- We, simple Russians, shouldn't be afraid at all. In this context, the lobbyist efforts made by our oligarchs' minions in Washington upon their order…

- Pyotr Olegovich, there are no more oligarchs in our country.

- Of course, there are. Dvorkovich says there aren't any more. I disagree with him, he might not know all oligarchs yet. But the point is that all these lobbyist efforts are in vain, because these sanctions have been imposed on the whole country, trying to affect everyone using the people who really run international business, have some connections, etc. Anyway, they try to affect the whole country and its leader. I think it's a glaring error by the Americans, who keep shaping their vision of Russia based on a group of marginal human rights activists, who are called liberal intelligentsia and who make up their own lists too to bring them to Americans, kneeling. Being guided by this group and believing in Russian hackers, who allegedly interfered in the elections, is the evidence of the inappropriate attitude to the current situation both of the US elite and the part of our elite who rely on these tales. Had those hackers worked, they would have gone for Clinton, I guess.

- The confidence in Russian hackers' interference in the election is really strong. Today, we've been following CNN since 5 a.m. All news deal with the interference, what is next in the "Russia-gate".

- Evgeny, seize the opportunity to announce that our hackers are already controlling everything. We are in control of everything. I told our counterparts in Congress, that we control even their toasters, making toasts for them in the morning. Doesn't any reasonable American wonder why we, having such good hackers, haven't fixed all our internal problems yet? Why then is the life in our country, to put it mildly, imperfect?

Leonid Kalashnikov: We, simple people…

- We, simple MPs... We, simple people, are happy about what Konstantin Vadimovich has said.

- I mean that our oligarchs…

- Whom we don't have.

- On the one hand, these special people who stole a lot from the country, might bring their assets back. On the other hand, we aren't happy because you get it wrong. I'm standing near Tolstoy, he's from United Russia, I am a communist.

- Two ordinary people.

- Zhenya says they impose sanctions against Putin. Not against Putin, but against Russia! Sanctions were imposed on me, a communist, 3 years ago. No sanctions have been imposed on Tolstoy, from United Russia, so far. Sanctions are imposed on Russia…

- You've given up your friend.

- They don't impose sanctions on oligarchs whom they've fattened up. A trillion matters nothing, American debt alone is several trillion. They want to strangle Russia. I feel sorry for Rosoboronexport. Under the pretext of fighting for Ukraine, they're strangling our weapon exports, which is the second largest with $17 billion. They will stifle it quickly and easily. I don't feel sorry for Alfa somewhere in China, or whatever. Let them come to Russia to arrange production here. What should we do? On the one hand, we should be glad about these sanctions because nothing can make us arrange our own manufacturing, and not feel sorry for the businesspeople. Moreover, they owe about $700 billion to the West. We should do the following: when they affect a state corporation or national interests our government should seize these debts. Because what Dvorkovich is saying in Davos like 'we are ready, we have the Mir payment system, we have this, we have that...' It's a nonsense, they spit upon it. Now you, Zhenya and Konstantin Vadimovich, must say there: "Do you think we are so simple? We're like Bolsheviks, we'll seize your $700 billion nationalize it, and, like in 1927, you'll come to us with the Treaty of Versailles!

- It's Leonid Kalashnikov, a genuine communist!